VSD's Head of Content Sharon Spielman interviews Alex Shikany, executive vice president of A3, about an increase in robot orders and what it means for machine vision and automation. They discuss growing opportunities across new industries, the importance of modular and interoperable vision systems, and how 3D vision, sensor fusion, and AI are reshaping solutions.

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Visions: A Machine Vision and Automation Solutions Podcast, is the podcast for engineers, designers, integrators, and end users who want to keep an informed eye on the imaging and machine vision industry. Every Tuesday we will explore the latest in imaging trends, developments and solutions. Here you will find interesting, useful insights and observations from expert interviews, solo episodes, even the occasional panel discussion, all of which aim to expand your knowledge on imaging and machine vision.

Transcript

Well, hello and welcome to Visions: A Machine Vision and Automation Solutions Podcast. I'm your host, Jim Tatum, senior editor of Vision Systems design and Visions is an Endeavor Business Media production from your friends at Vision Systems Design. Here you'll find the latest on everything from end user machine vision solutions to trends, developments, and perspectives on all things machine vision and imaging. Whether you've been working in the industry for a while or you're just starting to take a closer look at it, this podcast is designed to grow your knowledge and bring greater focus to your understanding of the imaging and machine vision industry. And now on to our show. 
Hello everyone. Welcome. I recently came across a press release from A3, the Association for Advancing Automation, which highlights a significant jump in robot orders and how automation is spreading into new industries. Given how relevant this is for engineers and integrators working with machine vision and image processing. I thought it was the perfect opportunity to follow up with Alex Shikany, the executive vice president at A3, for the Association's perspective on what's ahead for design, integration and innovation in automation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Alex. 
Thanks for having me, Sharon. It's good to see you. 
It's good to see you. All right. So to start, how do you see the surge in robot orders and expanding automation demand influencing the way engineers and integrators approach machine vision and image processing system design today? 
Yeah, it's a really good question. Um, you know, in the press release, we mentioned that the data for robot orders so far this year has basically shown us that the continuing trend of new industries adopting robots and automation technology, which is encouraging to see. Uh, we mentioned that in our report for the long-term health, we've often talked about these new customers approaching automation for the first time or early in their adoption process, and increasingly more today than ever before. It's not just about adopting that new robot. For example, like the statistics that you're referencing show it's an automation solution story, really. We see this at Automate. We see this with the customers that come through that show and the customers that approach A3, generally speaking, for things, they're looking to solve challenges. And the story today is more so than it ever has been before, a story of the convergence of all of these different technologies offering that solution. So, what does that mean? Your question, what does it mean for vision engineers and people? On the vision side of things when you see these robot numbers? Well, it means that there's going to be more opportunities upstream from what we see in the data today for vision systems, for AI software, for all of these motion control technologies. As these solutions are needed by these customers in a variety of different industries, they're going to need to be on top of, okay, well, how does my vision system work with a robot? How does that integrate with the HMI or the software running across? What are the safety and cybersecurity regulations that I need to be aware of so that I can play nice with those systems? And it's more of an orchestra today than it ever has been before, when it traditionally in the past may have been a little bit more siloed. And of course, that's not too broad a brush. There's still opportunities for only needing a vision system, a camera or something like that, or only a robot. But increasingly, all of these technologies are working more closely together to provide unique solutions for customers across industries. 
Okay, great. Thank you. Um, so I kind of want to talk about modularity and system adaptability. With automation reaching the new industries, what role does the Association see for modular and scalable vision systems designs that can evolve as AI and customer needs change. Yeah, well, I think it's a matter of adding another layer of flexibility for the users. And, and in my conversations with our member companies, with the suppliers of these technologies, and certainly with the integrators, I think everyone kind of recognizes that customers want flexibility and modularity when they make the purchase. And I think that is just if you invest all this money in CapEx or OpEx in a new automation system or vision system or robot system, what have you demands aren't constant all the time. The mix of the products that you might be working on or something is likely to change. The volumes may go up. It may be an unstructured environment with a high mix of different products that are coming through. And so to be able to reach, redeploy, retrain or add new technologies to your existing investment becomes really important. And I think, um, we are seeing more on the interoperability front. Certainly we are plugged into those efforts as well. But the value proposition is the more modular you can be, the more interoperable your solution can be, the higher value. Generally speaking, you can be to a broader set of customers because a lot of people are coming at this from a variety of different standpoints. It's rarely a very, uh, clean sheet. And it's, it's just absolutely starting from scratch. A lot of times there's one system in place or there's several, or maybe it's a broad-based system that was installed ten years ago, and you're a vision company coming in and you're asked to do certain things with that existing hardware that's there. And so to be able to plug into the systems there or integrate across is, uh, is very important, I think, for the scalability of all automation technology across those industries we were talking about. 
Okay. And as, as I've heard you say several times about the orchestra, you know, and so I'm wondering, as automation workflows get more complex, how does A3 encourage the engineers and integrators to stay curious and to keep learning and to work across those disciplines to meet those challenges? 
Yeah, well, that's a really good question. And it feeds, in some regards to our workforce development efforts and our training libraries that we have. Certainly, at the Association, we're investing heavily in a full suite of new programs that you can get trained on everything from a certified robot safety operator to AI training and of course, vision training, which, you know, we have our certified vision professional training and motion control, professional training. All of these things are available. And what I would recommend to people in this area that want to stay well-informed or trained or well positioned to handle these demands we've been talking about from the customers is plug in to resources like A3. You know, we're not the only association out there that if you're in welding, there's resources out there for welding and, and all across different applications, but I would encourage them to reach out associations, industry, trade shows, uh, networking events, meeting people, you know, that can go a long way towards getting you the connections you need to the expertise and the knowledge skills that you need to be at the top of your game and be closer to that best in class that I believe every company ideally wants to be in many regards. So I would say stay connected, reach out to people, leverage your networks. The integrators are a great resource too. We have a strong representation of vision integrators, but also robot and automation integrators. At A3. Among our almost fifteen hundred members, they see it all there on the front lines. They're integrating those projects from the manufacturers, the hardware, the software to the users, and meeting them at events like the A3 Business Forum. I see your badge awesome in the background, um, or even automate. That's a great opportunity. Meet these folks because they're a wealth of experience and knowledge and can go a long way to helping you. 
Okay, so earlier you had mentioned the standards, the safety and the security. So AI and embedded vision bring incredible capabilities. But of course, then also new safety and security challenges. So what guidance does A3 provide to help develop vision systems that are both reliable and secure? 
So the cyber security question at large, like at the very highest level, is still evolving rapidly because there's new technologies coming on the market. There's, you know, there are new ways to circumvent, uh, those systems. There's new vulnerabilities all the time. I know personally, and I'm sure many companies who might be listening to this or at your own company. We're constantly evaluating our own cybersecurity initiatives and investment. We've ratcheted that up recently. And so what I would say is with the advent of artificial intelligence, with the advent of more functional software solutions and things like that, the tendency could be to lean on those tools, to maybe forego some steps that might be difficult, potentially in the security and safety realm of things. I would encourage folks to not take the bait on that, so to speak. Don't lean too heavily into the AI and what that's telling you. Those better tools are good for solving challenges and will help us lead to better outcomes. But they're not a replacement for the fundamentals. Knowing what the regulations are, knowing what you need to do. If you're deploying a vision system in a robot in an environment that involves robotics, for example. Make sure you do your risk assessments. Make sure the customers are following the guidelines from all the safety standards. If you're deploying different types of robotic technologies. That's just one example because the topic of today is kind of the robot stats. There's a host of other resources available to you in whatever region of the globe that you're on. That is best practices to make sure that you are in line with being safe, safeguarding information, IP concerns, and all of this stuff. We can be a resource for you. Back to your question. So we help our members get connected with those organizations doing it, even if we ourselves are not doing it. We are engaged with the ISO, with, you know, Ansi, OSHA across the globe. Our standards team works is frequently traveling to different countries and working across those committees. So we can be a resource in that regard for any questions about that. But I would say stay on top of that. Don't breeze by it because you think you have a tool that can get you to a solution faster. You need to make sure those safety protocols are in place at the ground level of the system. 
So while we're on the topic of software, when we're talking about keeping vision and AI software up to date, obviously you have to do that. So from your perspective at the Association, what are the key best practices or the industry trends you guys are seeing around managing those software updates and lifecycle for these systems? 
Yeah, that's an interesting question. I'm probably not the best person, the most technically savvy person to answer that for you. We could connect you with someone who could get you a more in-depth answer, but from what I've seen in the conversations I've had, I liken it a bit to what we experienced on the PC side of things. So I use a windows PC, uh, you know, Windows Update constantly pings me for updating software and pushing new features, pushing new platforms on a regular basis, right? That I believe is going to be, if it's not already the norm in our space too. And that provides advantages, but it also puts an onus on completing those steps, making sure you are current with the security packages that are pushed. Vulnerabilities are fixed within a certain system from the manufacturer. We need to update. We need to communicate to the customers who have it. They need to receive that information. They need to proceed with the update. So it installs this layer of responsibility there when it comes to taking new steps as you add more software across your system. But on the flip side of things, it allows you to do what we all experienced with like our phones, for example, you can push new features potentially, you can add functionality with software updates and things like that. Go from Gen one to Gen two to Gen three, kind of like we see with the LMS and all these different models that exist. And so that's exciting in its own right. Leads to another set of questions that we could keep going and keep talking about. But I think the basis of my answer there would be, without getting too specific, because I'm not the expert, it's going to be a two-pronged thing. It's going to require more responsibility to stay current and updated, but it's also going to lead to new opportunities on the functionality side. 
Okay. Um, I want to talk to you a little bit about the technologies like 3D vision and sensor fusion, which are advancing really quickly. So how does the Association see these shaping the future of machine vision applications in automation and in robotics? 
Yeah. So I think automation and robotics and the applications that they're being deployed in, it's often dependent, the technology you're going to deploy. It's not a one-size-fits-all. I guess the best way for me to say it, so 3D you mentioned, certainly we're seeing a growth in 3D technologies because there's tremendous value to having that that three-dimensional data coming into the system. But again, it's dependent on your application. And so what I would caution is yes, it's growing. Yes. People are using it in more innovative ways. New industries, new customers. They're deploying more of this vision. But if you take 2D vision, for example, in comparison to 3D vision, the knee jerk reaction might be to think, well, if 3D is coming on so strong, then 2D might be on its way out. I don't quite see it that way from my standpoint. I see it as you have a toolbox in front of you. You're going to continue to need to use it. It behooves you to use the best tool for the job when you're deploying an automation system. And so I think all of these technologies that you mentioned, you know, 3D sensor fusion, physical AI, artificial intelligence, all of that is going to have its place in specific applications and within certain industries. And that's not a one-size-fits-all. It's not quite as easy on a trend level basis, though. We are going to see more deployment, I believe, over time. And all those things you mentioned, specifically the newer technologies you mentioned, I believe 3D, you mentioned sensor fusion, how important that is. Um, the connection to the hardware, the robotics, and all the other physical systems that are running at its basis. That is really the trend of this whole physical AI movement we've seen lately. And we've seen that term thrown around. You oftentimes see a humanoid robot attached to that term, which is a nice clean package to embody the topic a little bit. But vision is a critical part of the automation system. It is the way that that system can get information about its environment in order to perceive and then execute the tasks. And the better vision system gets, the more critical it becomes and more integral it becomes to the success of that entire solution. So vision is at the center. It is at the heart of making all of the things that we see at automate or, you know, we see videos of online possible. 
Okay. I'm sure you guys get a lot of, of your members going to you for guidance on certain things. So I want to address some real-world variability for a second. Industrial environments can be tough. Uh, you have lighting materials, other variables that create challenges for the vision systems. So what examples or initiatives is the Association highlighting that can help integrators successfully overcome the real-world hurdles? I'm sure you have some stories you probably can't divulge. Uh, the, the nitty gritty of those, it would be probably helpful for our audience to hear and understand. Yeah, absolutely. So when I first started at A3, it was like fifteen years ago now, which is crazy to say. I was knee deep. I started kind of on the vision side of things, like immersing myself in it, our CVP program meeting all the who's who of our instructors, learning from some of the best in the game, so to speak. They've been around doing it for decades, and one of the things that sticks out in my head, and I wish I remembered which one of our instructors specifically said it, but I know the quote, and it was something along the lines of one of our CVP courses. As you know, designing a good vision system is as much a good art as it is good science. And that stuck with me because I thought it was so technical. It was like, you just understand the scientific or some in science in this context is like, okay, what lens do I have to use? What type technique of lighting? Do I have to use all of that? Right? And if I understand all that, it's just, you know, plug and play, but it is, the more I've been in this industry, the longer I've done this. It is very much an art in terms of needing to understand the variables outside of your own system. You mentioned some of that, you know, dust, dirty conditions, lighting where the sun comes in the windows of the facility and where that can reflect and hit things. And all of this, people, movement, obstructions, I mean, you name it, there's basically an endless list of things in an industrial context that can provide challenges for vision engineers. I would say that you need to understand those foundational characteristics of how the technologies work. So I would encourage people to get trained and raise the level of knowledge within your integration team, within your engineering base, put them through the CV basic courses. You know, when they as part of their onboarding plan, those are available to you for very reasonable cost, if any, if you're a member of the association, uh, you know, through A3, there's other resources available too. If you want to step up and become certified, I would highly recommend you do that, or at least start talking to some of the certified integrators that we have. be happy to connect you to. You know, they can speak about their path to becoming a certified integrator and what that means for them. Badge of honor. Kind of. They can show their customers potentially that they're at that best-in-class level, but it also just raises the bar for your own engineers, your own team to be able to tackle those very difficult to overcome variables that make vision so much of an art. So I would recommend that as kind of a plan of action. Then you throw artificial intelligence on top of this, which is a relatively new thing for everyone. But I, again, wouldn't use that or consider that to be a replacement for any of the fundamental understanding, knowledge, anything. You can use it as a tool once you have that heightened expertise level, for sure. And you should iterate and you should critique. And I think that's a good practice. That's a good thing. Just with the new technology to get yourself versed in. But I would not consider that as a replacement to good fundamentals for system design in this context. 
Okay. So the impetus for our entire conversation today was that report that the Association put out. So why don't you talk a little bit about the report and its findings for Q2, as our audience at VSD would want to hear what's important for them from your report. 
So the takeaway from our report is that this year has been an increase over last year in terms of demand for robots in particular. That's this specific report. Okay. But I'm going to broaden that out beyond just industrial robots, certainly because I know your audience and also because I know it to be true, generally speaking. And we'll have vision statistics to talk about here in the coming weeks as well, pretty soon. The takeaway is that opportunities are growing quickly. Um, and when I say opportunities, I mean customers in a variety across industries, as I mentioned earlier, are in need of help. Are in need of solutions from automation technology that help them do a variety of different things. Um, and oftentimes that is a convergence of different things. They need an automation solution. They don't necessarily need a discrete product or component. We see this in the record automate show. We just held the people coming to that show. The users that are coming to that show are from a growing, broadened base of different industries from all across the US and the world looking to do this. The realization is, look, I can't find or keep the people or the bottleneck in my system. It just keeps coming back and it's slowing me down. And it's either too rigorous, it's too dull, too dirty. It's dangerous for my people to do, can't find the people to do it. So it's one of a variety of different things that are potentially driving it. But the takeaway is that going forward, we're seeing no signs of a slowdown when it comes to the demand side for these technologies. It'll ebb and flow. We've seen that over the years. Things are cyclical. You can take automotive OEM from the report. That is a cyclical industry from an order patterns basis going all the way back to ’84 when we started these statistics. That will continue. And in the broader market, you know cyclical variability will happen. But long term when you look out three years, five years, there is very little cause for concern when it comes to the long-term demand trajectory for automation technology. Vision is, as I mentioned earlier, at the center of the automation system, being able to do its job as well as the customer needs it to be. So my message is one of optimism. Certainly you can read the report. You can see the numbers showing optimistic case. But from a personal standpoint and what we're seeing at the Association with shows like Automate, and the interest and the people coming to us for help. It's a great time to be in automation and vision, and I think that will only continue in the years ahead. 
So before we wrap up, what's one piece of advice or mindset you'd encourage engineers and integrators to adopt today that will help them stay ahead as automation continues to evolve? 
I would say if I had to pick one piece of advice, it is ask the question, what if you know, what if we decided to use these technologies? Stay curious. There's never been a better time to approach, let alone deploy. Wait on deployment to approach automation technologies. Why? There are hundreds, if not thousands of videos easily accessible to you for free through the internet on a variety of different platforms. Short form, long form tutorials, YouTube videos. Uh. Certification courses. There is basically no barrier to entry to gather information on what's possible. And so if you're a business owner and you're looking at your business and you say, we want to take that next step, we want to scale, we can modernize some things, but just have no idea where to start. Ask the question, what if? Use your fingers on your keyboard to start. Go to some of the websites, come to us, send a couple emails, jump on LinkedIn, and watch some of the reels. There's some great real content of applications on how to and all of this stuff. Head on over to the YouTube channel, head on over to VSD and endeavor. I mean, go consume those resources because they're there. And then when you're ready, meet the people because this is an outstanding community industry, whatever word you want to use to describe it of people. And the people are behind the technology. The people are what make all this come together. And that's what's near and dear to my heart. What's near and dear to my colleagues heart here at A3 is connecting the people of automation together so that the technology can grow as wide and go as far as it possibly can. So don't sit on your hands. Don't think it's it's not quite the right time because there's really no cost to figure out and see for yourself that it actually is the right time. It's the perfect time. And if you don't, you may actually be putting yourself at a competitive disadvantage. 
Well, that's a wrap for this episode of visions produced by Endeavor Business Media, a division of endeavor B2B. Thanks very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's show, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and share this episode with a colleague who would find it helpful. Until our next episode, you can find us at vision dash systems dot com or on LinkedIn, Facebook, or for more insights, updates, and breaking news to keep you in the know. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, stay focused on your visions.